NDE 4.0 Podcast Transcript
Episode 23 — Addressing Non-Technical Hurdles
Our Guest: Kuldeep Sharma
Nasrin Azari: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to floodlight Software’s NDE 4.0 podcast. In this series, we interview various experts in Industry 4.0 concepts, ideas, issues, and technologies as they relate to non-destructive testing and inspections. This show is designed to explore the biggest challenges and opportunities for the future of NDT guided by some of the smartest people in the industry.
Nasrin Azari: So be prepared for a thought provoking discussion and to learn something new in the next 30 minutes. Hope you enjoy the episode.
Nasrin Azari: Today we welcome kde Sharma to the podcast. [00:01:00] KDE is an experienced NDT level three professional for ultrasonic radiographic magnetic particle and liquid penetrant. DT Methods and is currently working for Durand Industries in Pennsylvania. Kep has over 20 years of experience in the field and a bachelor’s degree in physics, statistics, and mathematics.
Nasrin Azari: Over the years, Kuldeep has been recognized internationally for his innovative work earning honors such as the A-S-N-T-N-D-T face, the A SNT Mentoring Award in 2025, and the Global Influencer Award by NDT Corner. He also holds patents for AI based inspection devices that are helping modernize pipeline manufacturing and has authored several research articles beyond his technical contributions.
Nasrin Azari: He has been an active member of several A SNT committees and a frequent speaker at global conferences where he shares his expertise and mentors the next generation of NDT professionals. [00:02:00] Although, although Kuldeep has a very strong technical NDT background today, we are going to focus on his contributions toward the non-technical challenges affecting successful adoption of NTE 4.0.
Nasrin Azari: Welcome to the podcast, kdi.
Kuldeep Sharma: Yeah, good morning and thank you Rine for having me.
Nasrin Azari: Excellent. Well, it’s so glad, so glad to have you here and I’m really looking forward to this conversation. Um. So, as you know in this, in this podcast episode, I will pose five questions to you, um, designed to dig into the topics that we’re we’re talking about today, which is around non-technical challenges in advancing NDE 4.0.
Nasrin Azari: So let’s jump right in with the first question, which is, how did you get interested and involved in exploring the non-technical challenges related to NDE 4.0?
Kuldeep Sharma: It’s interesting and I got interested in [00:03:00] the non-technical challenges of NDE 4.0 because I have seen them very closely in my career. In the beginning, I started my doing inspection with my own hands, and even today I stay involved in the floor activities.
Kuldeep Sharma: This gave me the chance to see known technical challenges from many angles. Technical challenges do not change much from one place or company to another, but non-technical challenges are very different. They change depending on the company, depending on the culture and location. That is why these issues are often not given enough focus.
Kuldeep Sharma: Like technical challenges are also usually clear, and they’re known technical ones for technical. You can see them very clearly, plan for [00:04:00] them and even get help from other to solve them, but for non-technical, they are more likely they are. These are the hidden problem. Many time, even the person facing these challenges does not realize why they are not getting results.
Kuldeep Sharma: In my opinion. Non-technical issues are. Like an illness without symptom, which makes them very hard to cure. Unlike technical issues where you can recognize the symptom and find the right solution for them, I strongly believe that if we really want to achieve the goals of NDE 4.0, we have to give equal importance to non-technical challenges as well, not just, uh, technical ones.
Nasrin Azari: Really interesting. It sounds like what you’re saying is that one of the reasons why the non-technical challenges are so difficult and important is because [00:05:00] they’re unpredictable. You know, they’re different depending on culture, depending on, um, environment. Whereas technical challenges are usually things that maybe people have seen before and they kind of know how to fix.
Kuldeep Sharma: Yeah, you are right.
Nasrin Azari: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, I agree with you there, and honestly, it, it’s interesting. Um, I think most of the folks that I’ve interviewed on this podcast will say that that. The non-technical challenges are the things that are kind of holding us back. So I think you’re right in line, honestly, with a lot of what the experts are saying, especially the technical experts.
Nasrin Azari: So, um, so let’s move on to question number two. One of the challenges you’ve specified as a particular issue for NDE 4.0 adoption is NDT technicians who are only trained to have, um. Expertise in one or two NDT methods. And you feel strongly that being trained in multiple methods leads to [00:06:00] far superior decision making.
Nasrin Azari: Uh, can you expand on this issue and, and how it limits or prevents NDE 4.0 adoption?
Kuldeep Sharma: Yeah, sure. And this is the very, very important point, and I see this challenge even in some of the biggest organizations, like, uh, many ND entity professionals are trained in only one method. And while they may be very skilled and confident in that method.
Kuldeep Sharma: They often do not realize its limitation. Like, you know, every ND entity method has its own strengths and weaknesses. So if your knowledge is limited to just one method, then the limitation of that method also becomes the limitation of your decision. Like, uh, for example, one method may completely miss a defect that another method can easily detect it.
Kuldeep Sharma: If a technician knows only one method, [00:07:00] so they will make their decision based only on the result on that method. At the same time, another technician, if using different method, may reach the opposite conclusion. So this often create a conflict because the first person may feel it is a personal attack on his or her skill.
Kuldeep Sharma: Instead of understanding that it is a simply a limitation of method being used. So this kind of misunderstanding can confuse and sometime even, you know, lead to very poor or unsafe decision. Mm-hmm. So for me, being trained in multiple method, like three or more, give technician a much. Broader perspective, it’s helped them to make better balanced decision because they can crosscheck the results, understand limitation, and avoid overconfidence in one single method.
Nasrin Azari: Yeah, that [00:08:00] makes complete sense. I mean, I think even if, even if a technician is only trained in a single method, just the knowledge that without other. Without kind of the feedback of other methods, you know, just kind of knowing like you say that there are limitations and understanding that there are limitations, I think is, I mean to me that that makes a lot of sense.
Nasrin Azari: It seems very reasonable.
Kuldeep Sharma: Yeah. And practically even, you know, I, uh, uh, like I passed through this kind of situation, like even when I started my career in back 2004, and I, at that time, I was certified in manual duty only. So at that time, in a one project, I found multiple defects in different pipes, and I sent those for RT verification.
Kuldeep Sharma: But the radiographer found nothing in. Those sorts and after few sorts, he [00:09:00] refused to take any verification sort and christianed my. Competency. He was very experienced radiographer but did not have any duty knowledge. And at the time I don’t have the any knowledge of Artie. So that incident lowered my confidence and as a result, even I accepted lot of pipe with the defect.
Kuldeep Sharma: And after like now I understand the limitation of both UT rt and after that incident. Got RT certification and after that I case thousands of defect by UT tests are not detected by rt. So this highlight the, you know, importance of being skilled in multiple entity method. Poor, accurate decision.
Nasrin Azari: Yeah, that, yeah, I think that you, you bring, you bring up a really, really good point and I think that makes a lot of sense.
Nasrin Azari: It, it sort of remind, it makes me think of something that I think all of our listeners can relate to, which is, [00:10:00] you know, whenever you go in for, say your, an annual physical or, or whatever, you get your, your. Your blood test. If you look at sort of a couple of like abnormal results, you might think, oh my gosh, something’s wrong.
Nasrin Azari: But a lot of times you combine that with the results of other tests and it kind of tells a different story. So, um, I, you know, I, I definitely think that makes a lot of sense. Let’s, um. Let’s move on to our next question, which, um, I’ve made a note to myself that this is a three part question, so there’s actually three questions in one.
Kuldeep Sharma: Okay.
Nasrin Azari: So you’ve recommended that raising awareness and education about NDT in, you know, for the non NDT community is also really important and a, an an important step towards NDE 4.0 adoption, even so. Question part one. Can you describe or define what you mean when you say this non NDT community? [00:11:00] Like who?
Nasrin Azari: Who are you talking about? What types of people can, are we actually referring to here? And then two, what type of NDT awareness do you think is appropriate or required for this audience to help them? Promote NDE 4.0. And then why do you think this is important as we continue to embrace NDE 4.0? What kind of impact do you think it would have to sort of bring higher awareness to the the non NDT community?
Kuldeep Sharma: Yeah, let me answer one by one. Uh, so when I say known NDT community, I mean anyone who is not directly performing or involved day-to-day ND entity work or not certified in NDT. So this can involve owner hire management, third party inspectors, or even clients and sometime even engineers from other department.
Kuldeep Sharma: So while ND entity [00:12:00] itself is performed by certified personnels, many other, in any organization have a direct or indirect impact on ND entity outcome. For example, if a company want to upgrade its ND entity system, the final decision often, often comes. From a mix of n entity, entity and known n entity entity people.
Kuldeep Sharma: So if known entity, entity decisions maker do not have a enough basic understanding of ND entity, that decision can easily go in the wrong direction. So this type of awareness is required not only for the NDT team, but also for known NDT team. So. Everyone has a practical understanding of what N entity is, why it’s matter, and its role in safety, quality, and productivity.
Kuldeep Sharma: Like for example, higher management, and sometimes clients or third party [00:13:00] reviewers should know that when n DT reject a product, it is not an obstacle to profit. Protecting people, infrastructure and reputation of that company. This type of awareness, help them interpret NDT result correctly and support the NDT team instead of seeing them as a hurdle.
Kuldeep Sharma: This is very important for NDE 4.0 because technology is becoming more advanced with the AI Internet of thing, data analysis and digital twins. So if known NDT people lack awareness, they may misinterpret it, result, undervalue the investment or register adoptation. On the other hand, if they understand the importance of NDT, they will support the NDT decisions, approve the resources and help to ensure smooth integration.[00:14:00]
Kuldeep Sharma: As I often say a surgeon like Make a mistake may cost one life, but any NDT person mistake could cost thousands. So that is why building awareness beyond the NDT community is a key step for successful adoptation of the NDE 4.0.
Nasrin Azari: So what I really, really love about what you’ve just said is, you know, bringing awareness to the fact that NDT is all about.
Nasrin Azari: Protecting people and infrastructure and reputations, and I think, you know. Business organizations and the higher level managers, you know, they’re often really heavily focused on profit and where can they cut corners and, you know, or not necessarily cut corners, but where can they reduce cost? And I do think I’ve, I’ve heard from a lot of folks, uh, NDT prac practitioners that a lot of times the inspection processes are things that, that get.
Nasrin Azari: Where [00:15:00] corners get cut and how dangerous that can be. Um, so actually I really love what you’re, what you’re saying here, and that’s kind of one of the things I love about the whole industry is the fact that it’s all about safety and, um, you know, the, the, the goal of creating a. Infrastructure that is safe and has high integrity for the, both the people that own it, but also the people that use it and, you know, helping to avoid unnecessary, catastrophic, uh, scenarios where people can get hurt.
Nasrin Azari: Like you say, um, could cost thousands of lives. Just one mistake could cost thousands of lives.
Kuldeep Sharma: Yeah. Yeah, that’s very important. And you know, everyone need to understand this not only entity, everyone, like known entity, community, and like other people. Right,
Nasrin Azari: right. Yeah. Yeah. They need to understand, you know, if, if I’m running the [00:16:00] show, I need to understand that the, the asset that I’m, you know, delivering or that’s, that’s bringing the company.
Nasrin Azari: Um. It’s revenue or whatever, there’s risks associated with it. And NDT is really all about, um, you know, mitigating that risk, which is everything from, like you say, reputation to human lives. That’s super important. Um,
Kuldeep Sharma: yeah,
Nasrin Azari: definitely. So I love that. Um, let’s go ahead and move on to question four, which is.
Nasrin Azari: Can you summarize the other non-technical challenges that you have identified? Um, in particular sector specific training. Training for high stress situations, and training of new technologies for experienced NDT professionals.
Kuldeep Sharma: Definitely I can summarize those challenges. So let’s begin with the first challenge, like, uh, [00:17:00] sector specific training.
Kuldeep Sharma: So, and it is used in many industries, like for example, oil and gas, aerospace, railways, and civil infrastructures. But the application are very, very different. So current training is, for my point of view, is too broad and does not match job needs closely. For example, like instead of just certifying someone at the NDT level two in ut, it would be better to certify them as a n DT level two in T for immersion testing or for show welding or for example, TKY joint and.
Kuldeep Sharma: My point of view like practical exams should be based on actual job profile so that the person is ready for the work day. Will do. Secondly, like training for high stress situations. So like, you know, NDT technician often [00:18:00] work under heavy pressure because their decision impact the safety, production, profitability of company and cost.
Kuldeep Sharma: So any wrong decision can lead to serious consequences. So that’s why technical knowledge alone is not enough. We also need. Training that build mental strength, confidence, and decision making under stress situations like many times, technician face situation where others try to influence their judgment.
Kuldeep Sharma: And sometime it’s come from even higher management from other department. So if they are not prepared, they may give in and make the wrong call just to avoid the conflict and this type of training. And. To avoid this kind of scenario is very important. Third, like training on new technology for experienced professional.
Kuldeep Sharma: Like I [00:19:00] met many senior entity expert and they started their career when digital tools were not common. And now with phase array, digital radiography, ai, digital twins, data analysis, even. Handheld UT machine look like advanced computer for me. Like some experienced professionals struggle to adopt to new situations, so we need simple hands-on and user friendly training data, respect their deep, practical knowledge while helping them learn modern tools.
Kuldeep Sharma: This way, we combine the wisdom of experience with the power of the new technology. So in sort like we need sector focused training where people trained for specific in one sector, like either oil and gas or railways or. Pipeline and we need stress management training so they can [00:20:00] take better decision in high stress situation and technology adoption training.
Kuldeep Sharma: So, you know, we can, we can keep our experience entity expert. Mm-hmm. And this will, we can, you know, really get result and we can succeed for NDE 4.0.
Nasrin Azari: Yes, yes. So I know that you have been very involved with A SNT as an organization. Um, ha. Have you made any proposals about changing or increasing training or anything like that?
Nasrin Azari: Have you tried to, to sort of practically, um, suggest or implement any of these suggestions that you have, which I think all make, make a lot of sense.
Kuldeep Sharma: They, they are doing in, you know, multiple way and like you will see a lot of changing soon and they are really working hard and like they are the people who leading [00:21:00] this.
Kuldeep Sharma: Excellent. Yeah. So they’re already doing like lot of things, so
Nasrin Azari: Yeah. That’s great. I’m glad to hear that. I think, I think what you say makes, um. Makes good sense. You know, the sector specific training. You know, I, I don’t come from the NDT backgrounds. You, um, what, um, my company FLOODLIGHT does is provides a software platform.
Nasrin Azari: And so, you know, for me, uh. When I’m learning about a customer’s work and what they do, uh, it’s really interesting because, you know, they talk about the techniques, but they talk about it specifically in the context of their, you know, their customers and their very specific environments. And so you’re, you’re right.
Nasrin Azari: I mean, I can even from my, you know, um. Perspective with very little knowledge on NDT as a whole. I can see that, um, the processes are [00:22:00] very different from sector to sector, even though the techniques might be the same. So I, I can see how, how that would be really, really important. Um, in terms of the high stress situations, one of the, you know, I’ve talked to several people about.
Nasrin Azari: How using AI can help augment, um, you know, the work of NDT technicians and some, one of the things that I often hear mentioned is that humans can make errors under high stress situations where AI doesn’t. So that’s kind of a, an area, one area where AI works better than humans do. And of course there’s situations, there’s the opposite situations as well.
Nasrin Azari: Um. So I know that, and I can imagine that the situations are very, very stressful. And I’m surprised actually that there, that there isn’t more focus already on, you know, kind of that [00:23:00] mental, um, fortitude that it takes to do the work that’s done by NDT technicians.
Kuldeep Sharma: Yeah, you are right.
Nasrin Azari: Yeah. And, and of course, and when we talk about the new technologies.
Nasrin Azari: A lot of what, that’s one of the things that I run into a lot with our customers because a lot of our customers don’t know that much about software. And so kind of explaining how a software tool and, um, you know, using digital tools to replace some of the manual processes that folks have been using, that can be, you know, there’s definitely a training, a learning curve that, that goes along with that.
Nasrin Azari: That comes. Easier for some, some than others. But it’s really important I think, as I think everybody, as we move towards these new technologies, everybody’s gonna have to learn more about software. So I general, I can definitely, um, you know, understand how that is a challenge. I’ve experienced that myself.[00:24:00]
Kuldeep Sharma: Yeah. Yeah, that’s the goal.
Nasrin Azari: Yeah. So let’s finish off by having you describe your idea of developing a complete platform for discussions, expert opinions, and knowledge sharing. I think this is really a really interesting idea and I’m curious to hear more about it. Obviously, there are quite a few collaboration and discussion platforms in the marketplace.
Nasrin Azari: What do you envision for this tool, and have you made any progress towards your vision?
Kuldeep Sharma: Yeah, so like today, most of the training and learning resources in ND are available only in English. So that create actually barrier for many talented people across the world. So my vision is a simply build a platform like Netflix and Amazon Prime, where the same content, same quality, and same level of training are delivered in local [00:25:00] languages.
Kuldeep Sharma: The only change would be the language. The other like knowledge and quality remains the same. The platform. Would bring together expert opinion, discussion and case studies in one place, and accessible to both NDT and non n DT community. So it would also provide space for reporting, like any kind of issues, sharing real world experience and.
Kuldeep Sharma: Resources for sector specific training. So by doing so, we can prepare the next generation of professional who are not just technically strong, but also better connected and more aware of the bigger industrial challenges. We have like already a lot of company started moving in their direction. Even ESND is doing a lot of things towards this, and there is a lot of [00:26:00] presentation, a lot of discussion in global forms.
Kuldeep Sharma: So next step will be to scale the vision into a structural platform. We are training expert insights and knowledge sharing are available in multiple language and multiple formats. So I believe. This will truly help to achieving the full potential of NDE 4.0.
Nasrin Azari: This is, yeah, that’s a really interesting, um, concept.
Nasrin Azari: I, I like, I love that idea and it makes me think of, you know, um, Google Translate for example, that’s another example where. Um, you know, if I, if I am browsing a and I end up going to a page that’s in another language, it will ask me, it knows that English is my first language, and so it will ask if I want it to translate the page for me.
Nasrin Azari: And it would be really interesting. I mean, I’m, I’m kind of [00:27:00] vis visualizing a forum or a discussion where. We could be speaking to each other, and I’m speaking in English and you’re speaking in German or French or some other language, and I’m hearing your responses or seeing your responses in my first language, which, which makes it easier to share ideas.
Nasrin Azari: I know that, um, you know, in a lot of. A lot of forums and conferences. We, we will sort of, um, resort to English as the language and so we’ll converse in English. And I know that there’s a lot of people that are presenting and English is their second language, so it might not be as easy for them to, to explain their positions or promote their views.
Nasrin Azari: Um. When you’re trying to do that in a second language. So I think that’s a really kind of a fascinating concept of everybody being able to communicate in [00:28:00] a language that is the most familiar to them. Uh, so it’s easier for them to get their points across. I think that that to me sort of is an excellent, um, adaptation of like a generative ai, like a chat, chat, GPT type of capability.
Nasrin Azari: In real time, you know? Yeah,
Kuldeep Sharma: yeah. I agree. Yeah. That’s the goal. And like that way, you know, we can actually achieve NDE 4.0 in practically not only on the papers.
Nasrin Azari: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Great. Well, this was. Very, very insightful. Kuldeep, thank you so much for, for joining the podcast today and sharing your knowledge.
Nasrin Azari: We’re often focused on technical advances in the podcast, but more and more I think we, we’ve been, um, embracing a lot of the non-technical, um. Perspectives too. And today was another great opportunity to view NDE 4.0 more [00:29:00] holistically and consider some of the human-centered challenges that we’re facing in the industry.
Nasrin Azari: So, so thank you so much, Kuldeep, for joining me today for a very, very insightful discussion.
Kuldeep Sharma: Yeah. And thank you for giving me the opportunity and letting me share my thoughts on this very important topic.
Nasrin Azari: Absolutely, and thank you also to our audience for joining today. We will be posting this podcast episode both on our website and in our new LinkedIn discussion group where listeners can offer your thoughts and commentary about the contents of this episode by really encourage you to participate in that discussion because sometimes those discussions.
Nasrin Azari: Add so much more value. I’d love to hear what, what others think about this topic. Um, I’d also like to remind all of our listeners that we welcome feedback as well as nominations for future guests. To do that, you can reach out to me directly or reach out through the Contact us form on the floodlight website, which is [00:30:00] www.floodlightsoft.com.
Nasrin Azari: Thanks again for joining us and see you next time.
Nasrin Azari: And that’s a wrap for today’s discussion. Head on over to our NDE 4.0 podcast page for more interviews like this one, and reach out if you have any questions, feedback, or ideas that you’d like to share. Thanks very much and have a great day.
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