NDE 4.0 Podcast | Transcript | Dr. Robert Meyendorf | Episode 10

NDE 4.0 Podcast Transcript

Episode 10 — The Genesis of NDE 4.0

Our Guest: Dr. Norbert Meyendorf, the founding father of NDE 4.0

Editor’s Note: In the interest of time, this transcript is still in rough format and has not been edited for proper grammar and punctuation. If you have a need for a fully edited transcript, please contact us.

Floodlight Software: [00:00:05] Welcome to the NDE 4.0 podcast, where we ask five questions for a ENDI or MDT expert. This is the show for indie professionals, where we dig into the big questions about indie inspections and digital transformation. Every episode we ask a net expert five questions that can help you do your job better.

Nasrin Azari: [00:00:28] Hi, everyone. Today, we are honored to be speaking with Dr. Norbert Meyendorf, whom many consider to be the father of NDE 4.0. Dr. Meyendorf coined the phrase back in 2016 as he was determining how to align what was then thought of as Service 2.0 with commonly known Industry 4.0 technologies. Meyendorf is a member of the American Society for Nondestructive Testing, the German Society for Nondestructive Testing, and he is a fellow of SPIE, the Society of Photo Optical Instrumentation Engineers. He was the department head and branch director at the Front Huffer Institute for nondestructive testing in Germany for more than 20 years, and professor at the University of Dayton, Ohio, and the University of Technology in Dresden, Germany. For more than 10 years until his retirement in the summer of twenty eighteen, Dr. Norbert Meyendorf was professor in Aerospace Engineering Program at Iowa State University and deputy director at the Center for Nondestructive Evaluation in Ames, Iowa. He has edited several books, is author or co-author of numerous journal articles, and is editor in chief of the Journal of Endi, published by Springer. He was chair of the Spidy Symposium, Smart Structures and NDE for four years, and every year since 2001, he has chaired or cochaired a conference. Within the symposium, he still continues to teach as adjunct faculty at Iowa State University, the University of Dayton and the University of Dresden in Germany, Dr. Norbert Mandora. Welcome to Floodlights NDE 4.0 podcast.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:02:03] Thank you for inviting me.

Nasrin Azari: [00:02:05] So as your listeners know, our podcast poses five questions to an Entity 4.0 expert, and we focus those questions on a specific expertise of our guest. Dr. Meyendorf, you have been working in for no longer than anyone else, and many think of you as the father of Endi 4.0. So for the first question for today, how did you come up with the term and the 4.0 and how did the Endi 4.0 initiative began?

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:02:33] Ok, that’s a funny story. Until 2015, I was at Fraunhofer and found that I was one of the initiators of Industry 4.0 that created this idea. Also to get money from the government to say that industry is now on a point where we have a new important developmental evolution. You called it Industry 4.0, and then in 2016, Espie asked me to give a plenary talk next year in the symposium there. And I thought, OK, I want to talk about Industry 4.0. I should also say that at the time also you have developed PC compatible and different ends and software and the use of artificial intelligence for data processing. So we had some ingredients already. And so I said, OK, I will talk about this and I will have a name. My idea was to create something which says you have a new quality of energy. And so I said, OK. And for the 21st century, Industry 4.0 will require spending 4.0. The original idea, I must say, came from somebody else. That was the first and Sullivan study which was published in 2015, where the author explains that if what is the importance of Industry 4.0 for new energy developments? And he named that and Disservices 2.0, I said, then we have Industry 4.0, why we don’t have and the 4.0. And so I try to correlate the Industrial Revolution with the steps of development of NTT Dynamics and also NDU or and open to all points of info for 4.0. And that is where we are now that I had a search on the Internet and I asked that Google the questions and the Tea and Internet of Things and NTT and Industry 4.0, and there was almost nothing that said, OK, there must something happen in the next time. This was March 2017 and then it happened half a year later. The first lot of specialists in Germany was founded with one promoter was also the Sorona also gave an interview here on this podcast.

Nasrin Azari: [00:05:11] Really interesting. I feel like even within the last year since we’ve been involved in India 4.0, I’ve seen a lot of increased interest across the board and a lot of people and organizations are starting to get involved. Have you seen the efforts sort of start moving quicker or that there’s a lot more interest? You think that the spirit of the effort has evolved in any way in recent years,

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:05:39] Especially the name is now everywhere. But I don’t know if everybody really understands that. It’s not only in your name for all things, but it’s clearly a completely new way of making and the way how we apply and it in the industry. Yeah. And yeah. And you want to ask me about benefits. Yes.

Nasrin Azari: [00:06:06] So it does seem like the workaround NTT 4.0 has increased in recent years, which is great. But let’s move to question number two, which I’d love to know what you think are the most interesting technologies and associated benefits of NDA 4.0.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:06:22] So I must say there you have to look for whom and what is behind. And so we have different views on this. Let’s start with the usually the industry is the energy industry. Those are the people who make money, this industry. And we has a very narrow view on it. Yeah. And but this industry has to follow the industrial trends, so we have to respond to what’s going on in the industry. And I think what’s important for these guys is everything about data creating, data mining, data management of data, remote and and. It’s also a new thing and the data is available, that means any data important are available and we have concerns, safety concerns about this data, and that is we will talk maybe later about tools that we need to create such databases and to make comparable results from different providers. OK, it’s another issue. But I think the other issue for the energy industry is how just comes to the next point, how we interfere with Industry 4.0. And that is when we say the industry which produces and makes products and because of product warranty, they have to integrate and they want to sell products and because they want to sell the products they need. And it usually is the industry is not really happy if it costs more than necessary. Was that cost factor? And the question is how you can integrate entity in the table controlled production. So everything is limited time on time. Every product can be different and we have to integrate also the.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:08:19] And the provider into this process. Mm hmm. And this has also to be online. It doesn’t mean you are going to the organization of inspections. And yeah, I think we should also look a little bit broader because she went and even developed the safety of products was mainly mechanical issues. You have you have mechanical products. So we have to look for cracks or defects in materials and components. But when we look on a product to even a car or an aircraft, then electronics is maybe the key issue. And also software today, airlines aircraft crashed because of software mistakes, not because of the effects of the Tobane. Right. Think about Boeing not. And that means we have to consider this. And also maybe we should ask Estancia also entity can be broader also to look on safety of of electronic safety, on the software for the whole product. Yes. Nobody know we have internal software codes when we make software code so that we have internal checks. Every software company does it on its own, but just nobody above controls is sex. Who says, oh, wait a minute, how safe is just software? Have you made mistakes? And you have seen this from the FAA that it was not able to check what Boeing is doing with the software, that it means we need also a new just in your business. Could be and it could be somebody else. But according to what and evolves in the past, it should also be something of the safety of electronics and software.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:10:12] It should be included in our inspections. OK, now what the what are the requirements for this industry? First of all, we need the communication between the instruments and machines. You need interfaces between and the instrumentation and production machines because the idea of industry for almost every machine, poxy Ozer and maybe as a product carries the bar code, which says what type of product will be allowed on this machine. That’s what it has to do. And also it has to be involved in this. It just means how how is the machine can talk to the and the inspection system. Then, of course, Internet of Things is important here. So that’s a very nice move from IBM to all try to show how the Internet of Things affects our lives. And at the end, when you look on this, it’s all already. And then what’s typical for Industry 4.0? We have a lot of complex individual parts in the Industry 3.0 and Industry 2.0. We had mass production. We had a lot of similar parts. Industry 3.0, for example. I was and it’s a production plan for most cities in Alabama. And there was a lot of robots and they all working very fast to create the cities platform. And as the ad was, the person sitting on a wooden table and he said, oh, that just our special yes is for me to makes it into everything automated. And then we have a human sitting there next to us on it and see this. And then we have no individual parts.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:12:03] And we have also problems to judge what is good, what is bad. Usually we are based on statistics and means we have parts we make. Let’s say we have some reference defects and we compare the visual part to the reference parts and you make statistics, pods, what type of defect you just can detect. And that is just critical for the construction or not. But when we have only a single plant. We had for many years also mischaracterisation of a single part and how we can. Understand the results that we get, what we can quantify as a result and make a decision on this. Now one thing is maybe by modeling and using digital prints, that means especially entity modeling has to be included in the defense. That means and people have to talk to these software guys to make sure footprints and all that and the process has to be included in this. And I have created this idealistic support machine. Dr. and I compared medicine and disease, which has almost the same procedure. You have some data files about the history. You have some symptoms, maybe such an entity of the patient. Then the doctor decides what inspection techniques you will use X on X tomography, MRI or so, and then the nurse or the inspector give us the results that the doctor makes a decision based on everything we know about the patient. And that is also what we have to do now, we have to make a decision not based on some statistics, but based on the whole knowledge on the part of the tiger.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:13:52] Let me speak about. As is manufacturing, then creates a material in the machine. So in the past, you could analyze the material and techniques before you form it and create a. But right now, it’s a positive. It’s a micro putting everything in the machine. And we have to correct this. This is a new quality. It’s a completely different task. And what we usually have here in this industry is safety concerns because all the designs are political and especially nobody wants that. The others know what the defects are, what a possible safety concern. That’s why this is something which we have to talk about when we speak about the next steps. And if I went over to see how we make data safe enough. That no haircut can get access to this and also no competitor gets the information about the products from the others, other possible defects, that means that a see, I think the important thing is then come to industry or research, produce or develop products and processes. And that’s also where I was active in the last 20 years. And that’s innovative. Usually we have not regulated techniques. We can use everything we have. Yes, we can do. And in my case, electronics, for example, speedy volume inspection using nano nano resolution, computer tomography is even transmission, electron microscope PTM, creating commando’s amount of data and make all this data management and comparing this data. I think that is what they are doing. This is also the handling of these big data.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:15:45] All these when you think about one computer tomographic image, which is about 16, 20 or more gigabytes than you now, think about the microelectronic part and maybe it’s the best solution you can do. It might be too bad compared to. Mm. What you can image. Now think of what an microelectronic bought then. You are doing this as several terabytes of data for one piece that is. But that is where I see the fastest progress right now in this area. And then perhaps the industry who manage and maybe private companies, automotive nuclear energy historically is as far as the drivers of the fastest. Every industry leader was Eckhoff and nuclear power industry. And I think very important for them to be remote and using robots sometimes are critical to access locations to inspect. And also we have not always subspecialist on site so remote we can integrate a specialist every vandervoort. Let’s say a big company. I don’t want to say a name has a team, maybe somewhere in China or somewhere, and they make inspections and from the homes they can follow what they are doing as advisors and also interference. But the problem here is it’s only regulated and it’s not flexible. And so we have here very slow innovation. I say you could do, but you cannot because we have to follow the rules because nobody wants to sign a document that things are safe. If you didn’t follow the rules. Right. Right. Even if a hundred percent certain it is even a sign.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:17:35] Right. OK, so so we find that if you have another group and that is new, that other people who have never heard about and let’s say use it. You can buy cell phones with infrared cameras, you have on your cell phone a camera, you have a microphone, you can combine a cell phone. This is a constitution to make any current business. You can buy a small plug and attach it to a cell phone to make microwave imaging. And it is available for everybody, as they call it. And logging’s was a hit like finding heat leaks or make another example, make noise analysis, for example, noise of your car to the sound. OK, you know, when you hear the noise of the of the engine, you know, there’s something going on. And yeah, that I think and my students and Ames, when I had an exam, said this was about a hundred students and a group of six to eight students and every group had to develop an idea what you could do this and even cell phones. And this was really funny because you use an infrared camera to camera to see of our as one, which was great. And that and that’s really interesting. In the high end kitchen, you can integrate this because it’s maybe to the. Yeah. Yeah. And so that means there are so many ideas and. As if we don’t do it as a community, others will do it. And you name it and do it is and

Nasrin Azari: [00:19:15] I say I like the way that you describe and the 4.0 is so broad. I mean, you sort of take the definition that most people think of, but you’ve taken it well beyond that. When you think about using having the general public public use and the fornaro and cell phones. And you talk about software electronics, I think that’s I think that’s the right way to start looking at it, especially as we as we move forward with the E 4.0 concepts. I think that’s fascinating. And there’s certainly an incredible amount of potential, you know, within the E for that, especially as you start thinking of those broad in areas. Let’s go ahead and move to the third question that I have for you today, which is where do you think the energy industry is today in terms of achieving the benefits of energy 4.0?

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:20:09] A long way to go and also depends where you are, and we talk about C and E in the process and product development, and we have already components of this, but then we talk about additional industry. Then we have to survey how Ente is done today. And I could say we can make it safe several Buller’s so we don’t have to be testing a number of similar components by a trained inspector who follows instructions to use the certified instruments and makes decisions based on the instructions and rules and standards. And usually tool for this decisions, behind’s as opposed consideration security concepts. And this is only working for Products Industry 3.0, not an Industry 4.0, because the individual individualized products. And so we need somewhere a new way of thinking. They from these standards, the standards and procedures. And that’s what I say. But I always try to say it’s a new way of making ends meet and this is something for the general public, but also in the industry. And the other side is and we have the process, development of product development. We use already automated X-ray inspection. My first Ph.D. student in 2000, no sorry, in 1990 made automatic inspection of X-ray images that you can put a computer against humans computers in.

Nasrin Azari: [00:21:52] Yeah, I know before that, there’s the samples of a sort of a beating people, but yet they’re still not trusted.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:22:03] Yeah. The other see, the problem at that time was that for cracks, people were better as a business because at that time we had 512, 512 pixels and this was not enough Melhuish resolution for Soccerex. But it you can repeat it and it’s repeatable when you have humans. It depends if your football game won or lost the last day or so and if you had a party the last night was one that does not have obvious, you kind of reproduces. The problem is then the don’t you go to the manufacturer of the machine of any machine. That’s why they are so concerned, because when you make this product warranty and something happens and it’s a failure because the inspector didn’t detect it, then yeah, you can make long investigations. Would it be possible or not to have such an example of this derailment of the train in Italy? We have these 60 people died, so this explosion of this on cargo tank, but that that is human. And so that means you cannot get producers. But when you have a machine. Then you can report this and you can show that the machine does not see this type of defect and then not the producer of the product, but the producer and machine is one, right? Yeah, I can tell you a story about this, but I started my my job at all, no fly in etc in software.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:23:41] And 20 years ago there was a company who to jam also for the American market and stuff that just happens that there are some pieces of, of the stones inside in the town and that could maybe create damage in your teeth and that’s why they can use it to seize these parts. Of course you could. And then I hope it’s not simple, but it’s possible. Sure. And then we had a meeting of the standard group to file for at that time for just copy. And that was what all the companies on the table who developed these things and they all agreed with us. As all of us know, they are at your institute because we didn’t give them something, because then we pay them. Then the patient has this problem and said, OK, OK, yes, that’s that’s OK. Yeah.

Nasrin Azari: [00:24:42] Yeah. Well, it seems like you agree with most of the folks that I’ve spoken to in previous interviews in the podcast that there’s still a long way to go and adopting and fornaro technologies within the industry and that they’re slow to adopt changes. And we’ve sort of been dancing around this topic a bit. But what do you think is the biggest obstacle to achieving and if we’re not on adoption?

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:25:11] Am not one. It’s a lot of obstacles I one thing which I always say is cyber security when I speak about it. And if your point or someone, the first question is what is about security of our data? Nobody wants that. Others know about that effects and nobody wants to know about their secret ingredients in a machine or so. And also does you sign that cyber security is a very sensitive point. And then who is the owner of the data? In today’s. And industry and Internet industry, when we speak about, yeah, folks, I presume or Skype or so then usually and this is a company who provides the tools for communication, says everything it’s communicated to all channels belongs to us. Not possible. The other thing is nobody really wants that his data sensitive data are somewhere on a cloud from from Windows or from Epper servers, maybe on anyway. And nobody really knows whether there are things that really we need fear, especially cyber solutions for the energy industry that are special requirements. The other thing is harmonizing of data. So that means when we get on the different providers from instruments and we produce data, they should be comfortable carbon. One of my ideas is from ultrasound that Starlene. It’s the frequency from, let’s say, we have to make a house inspection on five Magots inspection and we reduce this down to frequency to two hundred hertz, 500 and beyond the audio range. And then we can maybe use standard tools for digitizing and also for compression of the data, for example. And our institute we developed the code is also an institute in Germany that could do this.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:27:27] Another thing that we have volume images. We can also consider this as the stack of layers of images, which can also be seen as a sequence of frames, which is like a small movie that you can use movie codes. If I should do this, just then you can exchange them. So that means we need convergence between these individual codes, which every company has individual change it to a standard code which can be compared to others. And we can also use a standard code like MP status so that we can use our standard software to analyze and to handle the data. Well, that means harmonising the data that might. One of the problems is that many of you specialists are in my age. That means 60 plus and they are more looking back how how nice it was in the last year. And what was suspended. Maqdis inspections there and there. And don’t look for this to this forward. And we have not to much young people who are coming into the business now. And also the idea of Endi for everybody might be motivate people, young people to work with us. So and then you see the in my opinion, the public relation is not aggressive enough. So we have to we have to watch this internal review. But not that this is something which is important for everybody, that everybody who wants to have a safe Eckhoff or wants to have a beautiful home needs and has to use. And EOA has resolved and needs this.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:29:11] And yeah, that’s also working with the big companies. There’s a big software companies to that say out there about these things. Now, another thing is we should more have to look right and left. So what does this medical diagnostics both save lives? We both use the same techniques and the procedures are very similar and why we don’t use more. Was he just already successful in medicine, though? They are, and you could I know big some companies do this, that they use products for medicine, contracts to end disease because there’s much more money for development. And so that’s another thing that I think one of the big problems is we need more generalists. In the past, it was good to have a good expert and a good ultrasonic expert. And in my institute, for example, the industry came to the ultrasonics guy who makes alcoholic’s solution and can choose x y guy if you found an x ray solution. But what we need are generalists who have to overview and not see the NTSB as a method, but as part of the industry and understand all the methods and can decide what is the best solution for a certain product and just needs another very healthy plain ending at school so that we don’t at schools. Usually when we look on any classes, we speak of X, Y phonetic particle. And so but yes, the structure is the necessary. But there must be a generalised view. We have a problem to solve. What is the best way to solve the problem?

Nasrin Azari: [00:30:57] Yeah, and is working skells right around.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:31:00] So I don’t think it’s correct. Yeah. And then also to the present and the mess that we have in the. Which is in the inspectors training is not that he has innovations. And you said that you did achieve a total of Endi and per year I have 250 papers oximetry. And when I looked to the last two years, only very few, maybe two hands, maybe 10 papers really, and everything else are other innovative things was Michael Vapes was magnetic memory and it was exotic things that virtually all which also ended up problems but is not standard. And that means the whole innovation, though, is not in this area of inspection. So that’s what I try to say. If you have any interest in science and to converge at the moment, we have to bring these two worlds together.

Nasrin Azari: [00:32:03] Yeah, I like I like your thought. It seems like a general theme of basically raising the perspective of NDE, making it broader, trying to develop young, bring younger people into the fold. I would think that with Industry 4.0, technology is with industry know Iot, with robotics drones. I would think that that would be really appealing to the younger crowd. So hopefully we’ll get some young folks into the industry. Yeah, yeah, I agree. So and I also agree with the first point you made about about the concerns around data security being very real. I’ve heard that from a variety of different folks, that Endi 4.0 means just like a lot of things these days, means collecting and analyzing more and better data than ever before. And we’ve got to come up with ways where product vendors can ensure the safety and security of that data so that asset owners are willing to adopt these changes and sort of mitigate that risk because it’s sort of a risk versus reward equation at some point. Right.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:33:20] Let me make a remark on this point. It is about Machias characterisation because usually they think about India as finding defects, but the other job is to characterize them. And you measure stresses, measure matenga properties and, for instance, measure properties which you cannot measure by by physics. For example, when you have a tensile strength, its definition, a mechanical test, you try to measure it and the techniques. And the idea is because the movement of plot was similar to the movement of dislocations locations and we see similar behavior in magnetic properties and mechanical properties. So the problem there is you can characterize this, you have exactly the same material under exactly the same testing conditions and exactly the same shape and so on. So and usually when you try it, then you have to maybe solve such a case depth measurement or so you have only one part maybe. So you can never mix statistics. And usually most of these calibration procedures and you look how many parameters you have by statistics. You must have much more specimens than you usually have. Yeah, sometimes it still works. I talk to some companies who work working with for example, I don’t want to say the name here and they say, yes, we know that the statistics requires more, but it works also as a few a number of pieces. But wouldn’t it much be much better to have a big database of all types of materials for all possible structures and Vassanji properties related and use this for the calibration and also for maybe better calibration instead of only empiric inc six examples. The problem is this is no company wants to give the data to the right, but but if they

Nasrin Azari: [00:35:21] Do

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:35:24] Something, that would be a benefit for all. Yeah, and that is a process which people have to learn. And this requires a new generation.

Nasrin Azari: [00:35:32] Yeah. Kind of reminds me of when you have a I mean, if you have a failure on your computer and you get a question from Microsoft, it pops up. Do you want to send this data to Microsoft or Apple or whoever so that they can use that to help figure out what the problem is? Are it really benefits everybody at the end of the day? But do you want to do you want them to know what you were doing? You know,

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:35:57] So usually you don’t know. That’s why I said we need these services, especially for. Indeed, yeah. We know we can trust the service that we know. This is the server who keeps my data, who is a person who handles my data. And I have a contact with this person that if this information goes somewhere else, that he is somewhere. Yeah. So that I’m protected of my data. Yeah. And that’s fine. But we cannot use standard tools which are on the market because then you don’t know where our data end up, what happened specifically. And then at the end I get a lot of maybe commercial suddenly because of whatever information. Yeah. Then that, that is not the way we have to go. We have to go here. And this is something which and the organizations and also the I think the Assante also the European Federation, and they have to put this on the agenda to create such platforms for NDU 4.0, which provides services this small company can access. All these small companies cannot. But this must be something that everybody trusts the person and handles the data and also provides the processing. And that is really a strange problem.

Nasrin Azari: [00:37:21] Yeah, it is a strange problem,

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:37:23] But something is still for good stuff.

Nasrin Azari: [00:37:26] Yeah. So I think standards are definitely necessary and then just there’s got to be a level of comfort with, with data sharing and, and, you know, all of that. So, so let’s move to our final question for today. And as we’re entering a brand new year, lots of people are thinking about setting goals for the year ahead. My question for you, Dr. Meyendorf, is what can we accomplish in twenty, twenty one that will have the biggest positive impact on the NDA 4.0 effort?

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:38:00] Now, first, I would say what we have on our agenda, then what? In addition to this. So first, I hope that you can complete the handbook of 4.0 or Sprink that we are dating. And I think on the first and the 4.0 conference in spring, we will have the first. So that is, I think, the first time that you have such a book, which is not only an e-book and it’s a book that you can also read about safety of of data, about the Internet of Things and all of these maybe trolls and robots and those things that you you should not have done in any book. But we hope that we have all the important information that’s the NTC people need and they want to. Start to be active and. That is one thing. The other is public relations making, creating the awareness of and in the end, the industry and also the software developers, the large I.T. companies also should be innovative and deep and also have. Integrates this in their thinking. That means that some people like you, for example, or others who are in the business, contact them and inform them what’s ongoing there. And that’s something that should also have an eye on. So then we need some demonstrators, for example. We have very nice modelling’s solutions.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:39:38] And I have a state. We have a.. Modeling software. We have is the emerging software from from the the French institutes, Sheba and others. And we have to integrate this into the digital trends. We need to demonstrate up this a digital this entity included not only talk, but really shows us. And then we can show in a simulation in the. Yeah. Modelling looks at a the part that is a potential defect, that is what the end result would be. And so and yeah, this is one thing then and you conferences, if you have something in this year, you will also have at the SBIC one conference on Endi 4.0. We have also webinars, for example, on one that has some very nice YouTube to which I also recommend your webinar to Zen specialist boards. We have one at Assante, we have one ETSI German and the organization. And I think in Asia they have also something now. But this should come together if you need somewhere in a worldwide meeting of CE and 4.0 specialists that couldn’t be maybe stopped for this could come to this year and then Kohona is behind us, then we might have the chance to bring these people together. But you can also do this online that we had something like this. Luppi, who was also one of your guests and your podcast, he organized such an online meeting with online discussion was very good.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:41:32] And this should something which we should repeat several times this year. And then we have to work on homogenisation and data compression concepts so how we can compare data from different instruments of different companies, how we can use standard. Data and other software for all of this and exchange this data. So in the end, this require some standard formats. Now the lines of how we create and handle the data, for example, an x ray or in in the 3D images, it’s not only about see the pictures of Waukesha’s, but also ahead of how much information is included about the material, about the component, what should be there. And we have to start work on this now. And what I already said, we need an independent U.S. service that this is something for a start up. And another thing, I hope it was my planet at Ames, but I couldn’t finalize this to create a start up for you and to provide apps and smaller components. For example, you can buy it from multiple C and F for Edgecliff is a cell phone, works up to 220 kilohertz. But it’s for a lot of medication. It’s fine. It was very good for students training.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:43:15] I could give this to my students and Ames and that class and there’s almost no explanation, only a very brief instruction. And after two hours, they have completed everything they have made expection text detection of correct. That could characterize as materials because they are familiar with these tools and how this works. And the first customers would be maybe schools and universities for training classes, then the next customers might be. Yeah, if people at home who want to want to know if there’s corrosion under the paint on the car or is it leak in the basement or something like this, that means that is it’s a new business. And this also creates maybe another new business to support the information. Let’s say this idea of a car, if you have a called the noise of the car engine, noise of the car and have a database of a lot of engines on a lot of cars and the same age and so on, that you can compare the noise and say, OK, this sounds strange. It is different to the normal noise and it could be probably just that. And then there should be a person behind us and helps to find the various reasons for this noise. For example, also explain see the results that people measure which could create new businesses.

Nasrin Azari: [00:44:46] It sounds like an automated I don’t know if you’re familiar with this old NPR show called Car Talk where listeners would get on the phone and they would describe a not a noise that they’ve heard on the car, on their car. And the two experts on the show would try to tell them what’s wrong with the car based on the the noise. And it was really funny.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:45:10] That was the idea. But then you call that causes with the cell phone and you can’t directly transmit the signal and can get that. You directly get a feedback on the phone and also call it an assistant, as I say, at the same time. And another of my students had the idea to make a small scanner for themselves. Then you are in the field simply scared and sent with a cell phone your your your image to the left at home. Oh, that means yeah. Are a lot of possible ideas. This technology from today and there will also be one of the chapters in our panel will be cell phones and tablets for Andy.

Nasrin Azari: [00:45:54] Yeah, it’s fascinating.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:45:57] If everybody in his hand had excellent to the chest, more power than maybe an ultrasonic or collar device twenty years ago.

Nasrin Azari: [00:46:06] Yeah, it’s fascinating. Well, excellent conversation today. Thank you so much. The primary purpose of this podcast is to get the word out about Andy 4.0. So hopefully start opening up the conversation to a larger audience. Hopefully this interview, I’m sure this interview will move us closer in that direction. So thank you so much, Dr. Mandora, for your expertise with us. Thanks also to you listeners for tuning in to this episode of Five Questions for an energy expert. And folks, you heard the professor. We have our work cut out for us. You he’s got tons of ideas for where to take and E 4.0 this year. So let’s get to it and have a productive year. If you’d like to reach out and connect with Dr. Meyendorf, we will post his. Contact information on our podcast page, so please check it out. And thanks again, everyone, for tuning in today. See you next time.

Dr. Robert Meyendorf: [00:47:01] And thank you for the invitation.

Floodlight Software: [00:47:05] For more expert views on and subscribe to the floodlights software blog and floodlight soft dotcom.

For more expert views on NDE 4.0, subscribe to the Floodlight Software blog at floodlightsoft.com.

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