NDE 4.0 Podcast | Transcript | Ripi Singh & Johannes Vrana | Episode 16

NDE 4.0 Podcast Transcript

Episode 16 — NDE 4.0, 4 Years in

Our Guest: Johannes Vrana and Ripi Singh

Editor’s Note: In the interest of time, this transcript is still in rough format and has not been edited for proper grammar and punctuation. If you have a need for a fully edited transcript, please contact us.

Episode 16 — NDE 4.0, 4 Years in

[00:00:00] Nasrin Azari:

[00:00:05] Nasrin Azari: Welcome

[00:00:19] Nasrin Azari: to Floodlight Software’s podcast, where we interview various experts in industry 4. 0 concepts, issues, and technologies for non destructive testing and inspections. This show is the place to go to learn about the biggest challenges and opportunities around NDE 4. 0 from some of the smartest people in the industry.

[00:00:39] Nasrin Azari: So, sit back and be prepared for a really thought provoking discussion. Hope you enjoy the episode.

[00:00:59] Nasrin Azari: Hello, [00:01:00] everyone, and welcome to today’s episode of Floodlight’s NDE 4. 0 podcast, where we pose five questions to NDT 4. 0 experts and explore the benefits and challenges in this emerging field. Today, we are joined by two esteemed and leading figures in the NDE 4. 0 movement, Rippy Singh and Johannes Frana.

[00:01:20] Nasrin Azari: Dr. Yohannes Frana is a physicist with a strong background in ultrasonic inspections and digital technologies. Dr. Rippy Singh is an innovation coach with a background in structural integrity and business transformation. They have been working together relentlessly since 2018 to inspire digital transformation across the entire NDE ecosystem in order to keep pace with the changing world.

[00:01:45] Nasrin Azari: They pioneered the first international conference on NDE 4. 0. a handbook on NDE 4. 0, a YouTube channel dedicated to NDE 4. 0, and have written numerous books and articles that have been published in journals all over the world. Their book [00:02:00] titled The World of NDE 4. 0, Let the Journey Begin, has been translated into Spanish and Portuguese for broader use.

[00:02:07] Nasrin Azari: They have published over 50 papers, almost 70 keynote lectures, a dozen podcasts, and have influenced hundreds of NDE leaders to think differently. Their work has been recognized by ASNT, the American Society for Non Destructive Testing, with the Robert C. McMaster Gold Medal Award in 2022. Thank you for joining me today, Johannes and Rippy.

[00:02:31] Nasrin Azari: It’s great to have you.

[00:02:33] Johannes Vrana: Hello, and welcome to the world of NDE 4. 0.

[00:02:38] Ripi Singh: And great to be here.

[00:02:40] Nasrin Azari: So I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing both of you individually on this podcast several years ago, and I’m really excited to have you both on together this time, because it does feel like we’ve come a long way in the last few years.

[00:02:52] Nasrin Azari: And I know you guys have done a lot of growth and exploring in the last few years too. So I’ve got five questions to pose to you today, and I’m [00:03:00] sort of just going to let you Both choose who answers first and we’ll have a little discussion on each topic. Um, and the first topic is pretty broad. It’s how do you think NDE 4.

[00:03:11] Nasrin Azari: 0 has progressed since we last spoke in early 2020, I believe it was, and where are we now?

[00:03:21] Ripi Singh: So in, um, you know, I would put it in a layman term that in 2020 we were able to see the moon and now we know how to take the moon shot and look beyond towards Mars. At the high level, we could say that, you know, we were at that time discussing what NDE4 would look like and can do for various stakeholders.

[00:03:46] Ripi Singh: And now we know how to help companies kickstart their journey from whatever the current state may be, Johannes.

[00:03:53] Johannes Vrana: Yeah, I think in 2020, we were able to see kind of the vision. To where [00:04:00] this could be going. But by now we see the first people starting and some first success stories becoming reality. And if I look into the next European conference on non destructive testing, this one has now 33 papers on NDE 4.

[00:04:20] Johannes Vrana: 0. So what Drippy already predicted, I think that was back in 2018, that NDE 4. 0 could become the new reality. For NDE, and that in the future, perhaps there will not be an NDE 4. 0 session anymore, because every paper will be NDE 4. 0 anyway, right? So it’s on the way of happening. Um, and let’s see where this voyage will guide us to, because we are, we are right in the beginning of this whole expedition of this journey.

[00:04:50] Johannes Vrana: Yeah.

[00:04:51] Nasrin Azari: And, you know, a lot of people that I’ve talked with over the years. Would talk about how slowly the industry moves, how slowly the N D [00:05:00] E uh, N D T industry moves. And one of the things that’s occurred to me, and I’ve talked with others about this as well, is what do do, what are your thoughts on whether, you know how the C Ovid 19 pandemic affected the adoption?

[00:05:15] Nasrin Azari: Do you think it’s accelerated the adoption of NDE 4.0, or at least the interest and acceptance? Partially.

[00:05:23] Johannes Vrana: Yeah. This is, and that was one of the really surprising things for me. This is, I thought with Corona and with all the digital things we had to use anyway, that it would expedite in the E4. 0. And you could see people talking about it, but nobody started to get on the bus.

[00:05:45] Johannes Vrana: Everybody waited. And since about mid of last year, We see companies jumping on board and so they all waited to the end of Corona to jump on board. So it was a little bit surprising for [00:06:00] me that this happened. Yeah,

[00:06:02] Ripi Singh: it accelerated the conversation and it probably accelerated the technology development as well, but not as much in terms of.

[00:06:10] Ripi Singh: Adoption and implementation. People were still hesitant. Now. I don’t know whether that was because of bandwidth or a lot of people had financial struggles and we’re deferring it. So different stakeholders probably had different reasons. Accelerate or slow down because of covid because you know covid impacted everyone differently.

[00:06:30] Ripi Singh: So the responses were varied on that one. That’s true.

[00:06:33] Nasrin Azari: That’s true. Well, let’s move to the next question for you, which is what do you think have been the biggest surprises, both negative and positive over the last three years since we spoke?

[00:06:49] Nasrin Azari: I think

[00:06:50] Johannes Vrana: one of the surprises for me was, Mhm. In my eyes, yeah, I always knew that the NDE community, it has to be conservative and it is [00:07:00] conservative. I think it’s even more conservative than we thought it is.

[00:07:07] Ripi Singh: And particularly when the consumers are demanding it, you know, the shop floors are becoming smart factories and still from NDE perspective, we are a little slow in adopting it over there.

[00:07:16] Ripi Singh: The asset owners see the value of the service providers are not yet ready to bring that value to them. Um, of course, you know, when we talk about adoption of various companies, one surprise was, was a nuclear plant, which is, uh, nuclear industry is a lot more conservative than anywhere else. But these guys have jumped on board both in terms of technology adoption and mindset shift.

[00:07:41] Ripi Singh: That was quite a surprise for us. And now we’ve been working with them for six months and it’s. It’s an eye opener for us as well.

[00:07:48] Nasrin Azari: What do you think was the trigger behind that?

[00:07:52] Ripi Singh: The surprise that they want to avoid when they open the plant on an annual [00:08:00] basis to fix things. They want to use the data so that they can plant better in advance.

[00:08:07] Ripi Singh: And when they shut down for refueling or whatever, they are fully ready to handle it. That was the, that was the primary driver.

[00:08:14] Nasrin Azari: Interesting. Interesting. So I think one of the things actually, Johannes, do you have more to add to that

[00:08:21] Johannes Vrana: question? No, I think that’s sufficient. Sufficient ,

[00:08:27] Nasrin Azari: so you can answer the, this next question, Johannes, which is what?

[00:08:31] Nasrin Azari: What does a typical N D E 4.0 journey look like for an N D T service company? And then maybe also from the perspective of an asset owner operator l

[00:08:44] Johannes Vrana: Let’s, let’s take it a little bit broader because the first attempt. It’s about always the same, and it doesn’t matter whether it’s NDE or any other industry.

[00:08:53] Johannes Vrana: Okay. Usually what we experience. is that companies, they [00:09:00] start NDE 4. 0. They start digital transformation somehow. They get started, they work on it for half a year, for a year. At some point, they see it’s not going anywhere. It’s they, they are treating digital transformation like the usual project.

[00:09:21] Johannes Vrana: Everyday project. And that’s what it is not. It is a transformation, so you have to take it different, it will have a lot of projects to get to that, to a goal, but is there a goal? That’s the next question. It’s, it’s such, it is, the word transformation is really good because we don’t know where the whole story will end up.

[00:09:47] Johannes Vrana: And after they have invested seriously into this digital transformation. And I saw some, some numbers on the internet that about 85% of all digital [00:10:00] transformation projects fail. Yeah. Most of the time they fail because they just get into it. They treat it like a project. Then they end at that situation that after a year or two years into that project, they see this is not going anywhere.

[00:10:16] Johannes Vrana: And this is usually where we get then the call. Can you support us? Okay. We would love to actually go to the very beginning, but usually that’s about the point we get the call.

[00:10:29] Nasrin Azari: Yeah, so people try to start moving forward on their own, they get stuck because it takes longer than they think and digital transformation is a process, not really a project like many others.

[00:10:45] Nasrin Azari: I found the same in our business. Um, and so then they finally, they know that they need to move forward, but they don’t quite know how to get past. So then they pick up the phone and call the experts.

[00:10:57] Johannes Vrana: In the best case, they, or in the good case, they [00:11:00] pick up the phone and the bad case, they just say, oh, digital transformation.

[00:11:03] Johannes Vrana: Who needs that?

[00:11:04] Nasrin Azari: Yeah. Well, they’ll get that answer in a few years, right? When they haven’t taken the right steps.

[00:11:13] Johannes Vrana: Exactly.

[00:11:16] Ripi Singh: I think, and then the journey shifts, right? Once, once they call on their favorite service provider, consultant, coach, whatever we mean, we get a call. The way we look at a typical journey is.

[00:11:29] Ripi Singh: Let’s do the discovery where you are now. Let’s build a strategy on how to implement the technology and then have a sustained effort to change the mindset. Because that’s, that is where the whole thing is about transformation. The digital transformation, let me tell you, in digital transformation, digital is a small part.

[00:11:48] Ripi Singh: Transformation is a larger part. Right. When leaders realize that, they start looking at the thing differently. Because now you realize it’s not about a digital project. It’s about business [00:12:00] process transformation. Once they open up that mind, they’re willing to have a discovery strategy, put this as a part of a strategic implementation, and then you have a series of steps and you look at the ROI, not at a project level, but at a portfolio level, you have a three or five year vision, you have annual plans.

[00:12:19] Ripi Singh: That is truly when it becomes a journey, not a project. And your question, what does a typical journey look like? When leaders get on a journey more, they actually succeed when they’re in the project mode and expecting the outcome of a journey. It doesn’t move right. And

[00:12:36] Johannes Vrana: what they have to see is that the real challenge of all digital transformation approach is the human.

[00:12:44] Johannes Vrana: But also the human is the only solution to get to the digital transformation.

[00:12:51] Nasrin Azari: That’s a, that’s a great insight, Johannes. I like that. So do you see any differences or do you anticipate any differences [00:13:00] between companies that provide NDT services, um, or asset owners and operators? either in, you know, either in mindset or progression?

[00:13:13] Ripi Singh: Yes, each of their, we have had a chance to work with all of them. We work with asset owners, we work with NDE OEMs, we work with service providers, universities, R& D labs by now. And everyone’s journey looks a little bit different and everyone needs to eventually focus on making it a value add for their customer.

[00:13:37] Ripi Singh: And since their value stream is different, their journey looks different. Those who take a ecosystem view with asset owner as the ultimate beneficiary. They are the ones who really have a very productive journey, but it’s very unique. And even within asset owners. Each asset owner’s journey is different.

[00:13:56] Johannes Vrana: What we can currently see that the, [00:14:00] from an asset owner or asset OEM standpoint, the need for digital transformation, the need for NDE 4. 0, the need for NDE becoming a data source, you can find that need. And that’s coming back to one of your earlier questions, to the surprises. That was for me a surprise.

[00:14:20] Johannes Vrana: I see that a lot of the NDE OEMs, they don’t see this need of their customers, which we can already clearly see, but that’s for me, quite a surprise. Now for an NDE service provider, they clearly have a different structure in their companies and so on. And, but we already talked also to some service providers and some of the more forward, the more.

[00:14:49] Johannes Vrana: You have the ones who want to structure their business in a better way to help their employees in a better way, and they get started. And I guess you are the [00:15:00] best one to talk to about that topic because you provide exactly one of the platforms which are available on the market to help those service providers get to that point.

[00:15:09] Nasrin Azari: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we’ve definitely seen companies know that they need to change. I think that’s, you know, they know that they need to become more digital. They need to, you know, for, for us, it’s giving them that platform so that they’ve got the ability to adopt NDE 4. 0 principles and concepts and, and be able to basically provide the way I, I communicate with our customers, which are typically the NDT service providers, is that.

[00:15:40] Nasrin Azari: You want to have the opportunity to provide more value to your customers who are the, as you mentioned earlier, they’re the beneficiary of the additional information and data that they’ll be able to receive using NDE 4. 0 technologies and processes.

[00:15:58] Johannes Vrana: Yeah. And I think one of the [00:16:00] important differences we are currently working on compared to what companies worked on 20 years ago.

[00:16:06] Johannes Vrana: If I looked into a typical ERP solution, like the SAP system, those SAP system, they are kind of a copy of a paper process. And sometimes it takes longer to use those products than it takes to use paper. Right. But the solutions which we are currently discussing with digital transformation and NDE 4. 0, they are really to help customers, to help the customers to get rid of some of the Unnecessary work.

[00:16:35] Johannes Vrana: Yeah. All the entering data information. Right. And with that, we can make sure that because currently what we do, we have one computer system which gives us information. We have another where we have to put the information and we have to copy over information from this over here. And how many typos do we do in between?

[00:16:56] Johannes Vrana: Yeah. And that’s a security risk, which [00:17:00] We are reducing with all with enabling interfaces and stuff like that.

[00:17:08] Nasrin Azari: Um, let’s move to the next question, which is we’ve started to talk about some of this already. But what do you think are the biggest challenges currently in the adoption? to NDE 4. 0. Um, and maybe the next important steps for the NDE 4. 0 initiative as a whole.

[00:17:31] Johannes Vrana: One second. NDE 4. 0 is not an initiative. It’s a

[00:17:37] Ripi Singh: voyage. The answer is buried in your question. That is the biggest challenge. People view it as an initiative. It’s not an initiative. It’s a journey to moon, and it’s a voyage to Mars and outer planets, whatever. It’s, it’s, it’s a way where you transform the mindset to get to somewhere that you don’t even know right now where it will take you.[00:18:00]

[00:18:00] Ripi Singh: That realization, that acceptance is a challenge. You know, we hear from CEOs, Oh, we got our annual strategic plan for October. You know, let’s talk in January. We’ll have some budget for an end of year 4 project. We’ll talk to you. It’s too late. It’s not a project to be decided after you have done your strategic plan.

[00:18:19] Ripi Singh: It has, it is the strategic plan. Mm hmm. Right. Back to the same thing. It’s not about digital project. It’s about transformation journey. Yeah.

[00:18:29] Nasrin Azari: And it’s a big process change. That’s how I look at it is. And I think you’re sort of alluding to the same thing that it’s basically changing the way you do your business.

[00:18:38] Nasrin Azari: And so you need to sort of think about that first before you decide how you’re going to incorporate that change into your business.

[00:18:48] Johannes Vrana: It is frightening. Let me, yeah,

[00:18:51] Ripi Singh: Rupi, you go first. Yeah, let me clarify over here. Some people view it as a technology. Nasreen, you’re talking about it as a process. We are saying it’s a business transformation.[00:19:00]

[00:19:00] Ripi Singh: Technology is at the lowest level. Process is the next high level. The business is the next high level. It is at that level that you need to operate. Process is one piece. And connecting multiple processes digitally Across the value stream across the supply chain is where the transformation happens and just like, you know, everyone has their own perspective.

[00:19:21] Ripi Singh: It’s it is like an elephant being described by six blind men with the sense of touch. They are all correct, but all of them incomplete, right? So some viewed as process. Some viewed as technology. Something AI is all that is required. I mean, I is and what point or nothing else. Those are all technologies and then technologies come together to build processes and processes come together to build a business and businesses come together to build the ecosystem and the transformation really is a wave that goes from the technology to process to business ecosystem.

[00:19:56] Ripi Singh: That makes a lot of sense.

[00:19:58] Johannes Vrana: Yeah. And for, [00:20:00] for a lot of people who are, who have to take it the next step, all the management, all the people in the boards for them, it can be frightening because it is something they don’t know where they are going. Right. And the last 30 years, year to year to year, they kind of, they, they evolved their business.

[00:20:25] Johannes Vrana: But they didn’t radically change it. What is now needed is quite a radical change, including the mindset, including the technology, including everything.

[00:20:38] Nasrin Azari: Yeah. I mean, that makes sense because when companies try to, you know, make a change in their business, they. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s sort of common practice to create a vision of what things are going to look like.

[00:20:50] Nasrin Azari: So do you try to help your customers create that vision, even though it might not be correct, or they may not know what it’s going to actually look like when they get there? [00:21:00]

[00:21:00] Johannes Vrana: That’s the very first step we always do is creating that vision, but we don’t create it for the customer. We help the, the customers create it for themselves because this is, it has to be their vision.

[00:21:14] Johannes Vrana: It has to be the vision for their company. Right. I could give a company a vision, but that’s, that wouldn’t be appropriate.

[00:21:22] Ripi Singh: Right. We facilitate that. We have, we have a set of tools which bring people’s subconscious out to the conscious level. And then we put all those conscious thoughts into a structure.

[00:21:35] Ripi Singh: We provide the structure and they put it into, and then they see the vision. And then we run certain games. To validate that vision, we play, we play some very specific, um, I, we have an idea on how we run that exercise to help them validate or invalidate that vision to come up with what makes sense.

[00:21:55] Nasrin Azari: Awesome. Well, that’s great. Um, I want to end [00:22:00] the podcast interview today by talking about some of the, I know you’ve, you guys have both done a lot of writing over the last few years and tell me a little bit about your introductory books to, for NDE 4. 0 and some of the things that you’ve written and what, what people might.

[00:22:18] Nasrin Azari: Who they might be targeted, what people might be interested in, um, the, the books that you guys have written both together and separate,

[00:22:26] Ripi Singh: you know, we, we look at multiple channels to reach the audience. When we started in 2018, we quickly realized that different people have different learning styles, different attention span, and we have to reach the masses to multiple modes.

[00:22:42] Ripi Singh: So yeah, books is one thing. We’ve also done special issues of various journals. Johannes did the Journal of NDE. I think he’s done three and now doing the fourth special issue. I did one for ASND. Then we did the handbook, uh, two of us together with, uh, Norbert Meindorf and Nathan Ida [00:23:00] for implementation piece.

[00:23:01] Ripi Singh: Uh, Johannes runs a YouTube channel. Uh, I got a bunch of innovation management books. So we have actually used all these different channels. And in fact, you know, thanks to, thanks to your podcast, that is another channel for us to reach. Audience with the message that, uh, that we firmly believe in. So, you know, books is just one element and yes, we focus on that.

[00:23:22] Ripi Singh: Uh, that is one piece and we have more that goes on. Johannes, you wanna add something about your YouTube channel and, and why? I mean, you have now what, 3000 followers on that one and YouTube actually has made you. Their partner in, in promotion.

[00:23:38] Johannes Vrana: Yeah, I, I’m actually earning a little bit of money with that YouTube channel, about 10 bucks a month.

[00:23:45] Johannes Vrana: Fantastic.

[00:23:46] Ripi Singh: 10 bucks a month. So that’s like what two pennies an hour kind of a thing. Yeah, kind of.

[00:23:51] Johannes Vrana: Yeah. But, but it’s also a lot of fun and to see the reaction and to see the people getting excited about NDE 4. 0. So it’s totally worth [00:24:00] it. Um, a couple of additions to what you said. There is actually. And there will be a new call for papers for a new special issue, this time by NDT and E International, um, the, regarding the books, perhaps a little bit of guideline, which book to read first.

[00:24:22] Johannes Vrana: I would start with this one, because this is really, this gives kind of an introduction to the whole topic. This is another possibility, could be to read some of the papers. Uh, we’ve written, I think, in the handbook you find the introduction to NDE 4. 0, which is a pretty good starting step, or there is also a paper, um, of the channel of NDE, where we did a, um, where we worked on the basics of NDE 4.

[00:24:54] Johannes Vrana: 0, um, and I also have to say there will be, most likely, [00:25:00] pretty soon, hopefully, a Wikipedia article about NDE 4. 0. Oh, yeah! Yeah! That would be great! Nathan Ida was doing that and hopefully it’s good. It’s already in review since, uh, December. So let’s hope it’s getting published soon. This book is really, or this one is really the one I would recommend to start with.

[00:25:24] Johannes Vrana: Now, if you want to get more into the details of NDE 4. 0, then I would think. Get the handbook of NDE 4. 0 from the library or buy some of the individual chapters. Unfortunately, I wouldn’t buy the book because the book is a little bit very expensive. Not this one, the handbook. But you can buy all the chapters individually of the handbook.

[00:25:50] Johannes Vrana: Or you get into all the different papers which are out there which also give you some details. And… Once you really get started with [00:26:00] NDE 4. 0, and especially going along with our workshops, there is this, uh, the roadmap book Rippy wrote together with Ramon, um, which I think is a tremendous help to get to work from actually starting with a vision and then going towards a roadmap.

[00:26:20] Nasrin Azari: Oh, that sounds fantastic. So hopefully I can get some links from you guys of where folks can find those materials. I’m obviously also a really big proponent of education. One of the things that’s exciting for me is that I’ve noticed several years ago when I first started learning about NDE 4. 0, I would get on my Google and search for NDE 4.

[00:26:43] Nasrin Azari: 0 and really nothing came up. Very, very little, like some introductory, like academic papers, And now it’s everywhere. And I think that’s thanks to a lot of the work you guys have done. And, um, you know, I, I [00:27:00] feel really proud of this podcast is to be as being a part of helping to educate people on the subject.

[00:27:06] Nasrin Azari: But you guys have both contributed so much to that and I think that shows it’s clearly shows like, like I said, if you go to Google and do a search, there’s a lot out there now that never was there before. So, yeah.

[00:27:20] Johannes Vrana: And I think it’s We need a lot more such initiatives like your channel, like my YouTube channel, like what we do on LinkedIn, like what also, uh, Martin Wall is doing with this, with Hoyce.

[00:27:33] Johannes Vrana: I think those are all very valuable channels and we need more of them because this NDE 4. 0 topic, it will continue to grow.

[00:27:41] Nasrin Azari: Right. And it will just become NDE at some point, right? Yeah. Um, well, fantastic.

[00:27:48] Ripi Singh: I mean, go ahead, Ruby. When we start talking about NDE 5, then the term 4 will drop and then there’ll be two things.

[00:27:53] Ripi Singh: There’ll be NDE and there’ll be NDE 5. Right,

[00:27:56] Nasrin Azari: right. Let’s not, let’s not jump the gun on that, Rippy. Let’s give it a little bit [00:28:00] more time to cure. Okay. How about

[00:28:03] Ripi Singh: 10 years? Okay. Okay.

[00:28:07] Johannes Vrana: 30

[00:28:09] Ripi Singh: 10. We debate all the time. This is another place.

[00:28:13] Nasrin Azari: Of course, we can’t. We can’t get through a conversation with you guys without having a debate about something, right?

[00:28:21] Johannes Vrana: That’s what we’re here

[00:28:22] Nasrin Azari: for. Yeah, yeah, true. So well, thank you so much. Both of you to sharing your insights today. Any last thoughts? Rippy and

[00:28:31] Ripi Singh: Johannes Johannes, you go first.

[00:28:37] Ripi Singh: I

[00:28:38] Johannes Vrana: appreciate it. I want to welcome all of you to the world of NDE 4. 0. We need all of you to work along with us. It’s not a project that Ruby and me are doing. It’s a project all of us should be doing together to secure the future of NDE and to make the world a safer place. But because that’s essentially what we are doing or trying

[00:28:57] Ripi Singh: to do.[00:29:00]

[00:29:00] Ripi Singh: Well said, Johannes. I, I want to close with a, with a simple analogy so that you can remember what we talked about. And this came up during a conversation with one of our clients. You know, if you’re living in an apartment and you decide to move to a house, you can plan exactly what’s happening. You’re in the same town.

[00:29:19] Ripi Singh: You know, everything that’s a that’s like a project. Now, sometimes you decide you move in your life. You go from one town to another town. I moved from Texas to Connecticut. Yeah, I could come here for I was hunting, I, this became like a program, multiple things, you got to change your doctors, you got to change your schools and everything.

[00:29:40] Ripi Singh: That’s like a bigger program. The transformation was more like when I migrated from India to US, okay? I had no idea where I was going, I had no idea about the education system or the health system, about the social structure, about the church or anything. But we took a leap of faith that we are [00:30:00] migrating into a completely different area.

[00:30:03] Ripi Singh: Which is going to be better than where we are now, for various reasons. And we’ll go there, and we’ll find a place, and we’ll make friends, and we’ll find the church, we’ll find the school, we’ll find the doctor. We’ll have all that done after we leave the old state and start the journey on the voyage into the new state.

[00:30:21] Ripi Singh: So if you think of transformation as something that you put your faith in it, faith in your people, faith in your own competency, in your own agility, and a desire and a purpose for a better future, you will be successful. But if you think that you’re migrating from one country to another country, and it is like changing an apartment to a house, it will not work.

[00:30:44] Nasrin Azari: So take the first step, a leap of faith, even though you don’t know everything about where you’re going. Yes. Excellent. Well, thank you guys both so much for your insights. As always, I feel like you’re, you’re about 10 steps ahead of the rest [00:31:00] of us. So great to hear from you and learn today. Um, I encourage our listeners to follow both Rippy and Johannes as they continue to pave the way for NDE 4.

[00:31:10] Nasrin Azari: 0. We’ll post links on our podcast webpage. For those of you who’d like to get in touch with them, and if any listeners have feedback or would like to nominate an individual or an organization to be a guest on a future episode, please um, send a message to me directly at n azar@floodlfightsoft.com. Or you can submit the contact us form on floodlight.

[00:31:33] Nasrin Azari: Thank you so much for joining and see you next time.

[00:31:37] Ripi Singh: Thank you. Thank you all the listeners. Bye. Thank you.

[00:31:44] Nasrin Azari: To learn more about NDE 4. 0, Emerging Technologies and Digital Transformation, please visit www. floodlightsoft. com for additional resources, including our blog and several relevant white papers. If you have any questions about [00:32:00] today’s episode, Or suggestions for future episodes, please send an email to info at floodlightsoft.

[00:32:06] Nasrin Azari: com. Thank you so much.


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